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The borders must be sealed, yesterday. Both parties are to blame however; where was the Republican leadership for the past 14 years as they've controlled congress for that long; not to mention total control of the Legislative AND Executive branches for the last 6 years? Could it be the cozy relationship to businesses and the obscene amount of cash they infuse to political party campaign coffers to let the cheap labor keep on coming? What else could be the reason? Instead of complaining about the current bill and/or pointing out the obvious, can someone, anyone come up with a credible alternative to account for the current crop of those here illegally today? Best answer goes to someone who can successfully provide a coherent and FEASIBLE alternative plan to account for those individuals right away which is also a matter or national security as well. Or is that part of national security not so important?
Mass deportation is not one of them because not even the Republicans front-runners for president are ascribing to that fantasy; not even Mr. Fred " I'm going to announce my run for the Presidency on the 4th of July" Thompson, who in an interview with Bill Bennett today conceded that some type of legitimization is required provided that the borders are sealed.
Rasputin - it took the government almost 1 year to build 11 miles of the 800+ miles of fence under the Hunter Bill. At that rate, we'll have the border sealed in about 150 years, but let's say we can do it in 5, heck let's even say 2 - Check! Do you think that the government has the competence and manpower to go after 12 million potential deportees and the many thousands of employers that are just trying to play in the free market. Sounds like a plan of that magnitude would increase spending and government exponentially. Would conservatives go for that? Big Spending? Big Government? How would you pay for it? Thanks for your response
SRA AFIN - Thanks for your response. Can do? 11 miles of fence in a year, think about it. I'm not putting your idea down, at least you have a plan which is the first I've seen in a while; thanks. I was in the military too and the job you describe can only be done and enforced by the military. You really think we have the civilian manpower, logistically capability, and political will to carry that out? Perhaps however; based on everything else I've seen, at this point in time, I'm dubious
OK Whiz, very well. DEMOCRATS are EQUALLY responsible for the immigration problem. I'm an independent and could care less for the two party system. I've voted for Democrats (Clinton, both terms) AND Republicans (Guiliani and Bloomberg in NYC.). It doesn't change the FACT that Republicans have had total control of the government for the last 6 years. So thanks for the PSA; apparently nuance is more important that finding a practical solution. Regards.
Thanks EVERYBODY for putting forth very interesting ideas and plans on how to achieve them. I'll Choose a Best Answer soon, in the meantime some parting shots: Businesses CRAVE illegal workers because in order to stay competitive in the market, they have to afford labor. If employers were to hire Americans, they would be forced to pay at least minimum wage and if retention is important to them, they'd have to pay for benefits as well. - For small businesses it's choice between operating at a loss or passing the costs on to the consumers assuming ALL businesses would play by the same rules, but we know that's highly improbable. - For corporations, it means lowering shareholder value which is economic suicide. I'm not condoning businesses for their labor practices; just staying the obvious challenges they face in order to be profitable. Thanks to globalization, US businesses have to compete with other countries that make our illegal workers look rich by comparison.
So businesses, especially large corporations, rationalize that it's more cost effective to give BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES huge campaign contributions to look the other way, instead of playing by the rule because they know that government has their limitations on enforcement. What's the annual IE budget? Paltry, at best. So there are no easy answers and I think the matter is much more complex than just illegal border crossing and enforcing the law. We're a consumer society; we LOVE and DEMAND our affordable goods and services and don't really think too hard about why they are so cheap to begin with. So WE, the people have a lot of power in influencing businesses by making choices over what we buy and from whom. If we're really serious about changing the landscape, we also have to be willing to pay a heck of a lot more for goods and services provided by companies who hire Americans at a fair wage and benefits. Something has to give and I don't think government can solve it alone.
The biggest issue we have right now is that the politicians are looking at the illegal immigrants and trying to find a way to fine/punish/or deport them. However, personally don't mind if an immigrant is in the USA, as long as they are not taking american jobs. (Unless they are specially trained in a certain field.) I think the biggest problem we face is companies using these immigrants for cheap labor. Instead of attacking the immigrants themselves, the politicians need to go after the large companies that are knowingly hiring these immigrants within the US. If Wal-Mart and other such companies that employ illegal immigrants are very heavily fined, it would no longer be in the companies best financial interest to have these employees around. Americans need jobs to survive. Many working class families are forced to work more than one job in order to care for their daily needs. If large companies stop hiring immigrants, I feel the worst part of the immigration problem would be solved, and the Americans can have their jobs back.
First of all we do not need a comprehensive plan. We especially do not need this abortion of a bill that Kennedy put together behind closed doors. First step. Seal the Borders. All of the liberal elitist politicians say that needs to be done and they are promising that it will be done but will they do it? Like you pointed out, they said they would build a fence. Have they done it? have they funded it? Uncle Teddy PROMISED in 1986 that his bill would only grant amnesty to 1.1 million illegals, that the borders would be sealed henceforth, and that he would NEVER bring an amnesty bill before the american people again. The actual number was about 2.8 million, over twice what he stated, and no one bothered to seal the borders. Kennedy got what he wanted which was the amnesty. Now he is saying the exact same thing except this time the estimate is 12 to 20 million (so will probably come in at 24 to 40 million) and he at least didn't promise that he would never do it again. There is no reason that the bill cannot be separated. Enforcement has nothing to do with granting amnesty. They are two separate issues. We do not have to answer the question What do we do with those that are here? Today. What did we do with them yesterday? Last week? Last Month? Last year? The only reason that the liberal elites want the "package" is because they only want the amnesty. They are holding our borders hostage, telling the American people that if you want me to secure the borders you have to give me the amnesty. They could have done this last year. The house passed the "enforcement only" bill but the Senate would have no part of it. They had to draft their so called comprehensive plan. Why? because the House plan did not contain the amnesty!!! You want the feasible plan? apply the KISS principle. Tackle one problem at a time. Seal the borders, stop the inflow. Remove the magnets like free medical, free food, free education, and STOP the look the other way policies. Eliminate sanctuary cities and start enforcing the law. Once all that is in place and working, then deal with those that are here and come up with a plan that will actually work. Remember, what sounds good on paper may not be entirely feasible in actual practice. We need to ask and ANSWER the question How are we going to do that, who is going to pay, and what are the ramifications, before we agree to anything.
I believe the security aspect is important but not the most important. Mass-immigration without assimilation creates lot of social problems that are very difficult to deal with (look at Europe). I do not believe the globalist model (consumers and businesses, no borders) is preferred to strong historically proven nation model. Z visa is stupid. Most "zees" will never leave the country for applying for citizenship. What would I do: 1. I would create the system that makes it impossible for employers to hire illegal immigrant (easy to do, low cost), 2. I would deny any government benefit to people in country illegally (easy to do, no cost). 3. I would improve border security (but it is not so important if the first two are strictly enforced). After 3 years I would restore pre-Clinton immigration law point that allowed immigration judge to grant legal residency status for good behavior fot those in the country illegally.
If the laws that are on the books were enforced to the letter and a larger fine imposed against the Corporations that encourage illegals to come to the US and hire them . And if the US stops all the free benefits we won't need to deport illegals , they will go home .If there is nothing here for them , the majority won't stay , only the ones that want to become American citizens and assimilate . But before anything else is done , the borders have to be closed !!!!
It's been going on a LOT longer than 14 years. We granted amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens in 1986, that was 21 years ago....it's been going on even longer than that!!!! You CANNOT blame Republicans solely for this. I notice you didn't mention Democrats in your post AT ALL!!!!! The fact is that politicians of both parties have turned their heads and virtually ignored the issue for DECADES allowing it to grow into the major issue it is today. Don't try to let anyone off the hook here or try ot place more blame on one party than the other. If ours laws had been enforced before the last amnesty, we wouldn't even have had to grant that one...we certainly should have fixed it after 1986... EDIT: Actually NO...it's not pretty clear. You gloss over the part of both parties being to blame and assign the MAJORITY of the blame to the Republicans by saying "HOWEVER they have had total control for the last 14 years". Why didn't you mention Democrats failings in the immigration issue?? Fair is fair. Why didn't you mention that the Democrats do nothing about the immigration issue when THEY have had a president in the White House or controlled Congress. BTW I read your other posts and know you support Democrats. Just want to point out to the other posters your attempt to assign most of the blame on Republicans.
Fine the employers, like they are supposed to. Require them to have documentation in order to purchase cars, homes, get credit, or rent, go to school, doctor, everything. We have to have ID's what is wrong with just going by the laws the way they are now, but enforcing them? If this were to happen, the illegals would all go home on their own willingly and be forced to only come here legally. The only ones that would get by would be the ones who commit New Hampshire theft or get fake ID's. When they are caught eventually, they will be deported too. Why can't we just enforce laws we already have and fine employers, credit agencies, car dealerships, colleges, and mortgage lenders who don't make sure their clients and employees are legal? I have to sign all kinds of things upon employment that I am a legal citizen and blah blah, why? If I don't have to be, what is that purpose?
During a census the country goes door to door to try and determine who lives where. In areas where there is a known influx of illegals, use military or national guard to ride along with the census takers. We should go ahead and do a census this year. Enforce the existing immigration laws when illegals are found. Send as many home as is possible. Use military sea bees, army engineers to complete the fence. Take the money from the homeland security budget. Start voting out any senator or congressman or woman that is soft on border security. When they start to see we are serious they will start voting things our way.
Close the borders...spend the money to round up the illegals..send them home, then apply Mexico's own immigration laws here. At a time when the Supreme Court and many politicians seek to bring American law in line with foreign legal norms, it’s noteworthy that nobody has argued that the US look at how Mexico deals with immigration and what it might teach us about how best to solve our illegal immigration problem. Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are: • in the country legally; • have the means to sustain themselves economically; • not destined to be burdens on society; • of economic and social benefit to society; • of good character and have no criminal records; and • contributors to the general well-being of the nation. The law also ensures that: • immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor; • foreign visitors do not violate their visa status; • foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics; • foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported; • foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported; • those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.
First control our borders and ports. Start enforcement of our immigration laws. Yes we should make it easier to legally come to this country. Easier paperwork, more places to go to get this paperwork, and more help to get the paperwork done. More places to go to get a health checkup. Have a one time set fee, to cover everything. I think that even one year is to long to get an answer, a good backround check, and a good health check up can be done in not more than 90 days. So make it that they will have a yes or no, in no more than 90 days. but just the fact that they are poor, can not be the only reason to get oked, the bottom line is we can not take in all of the worlds poor. Now for those here in our country now. If being here illegally is all they have done wrong, pay the $5,000.00, learn english, and get your green card. But being here illegally must be the only law you have broken.
Let's say that tomorrow, Bush has a prime-time TV speech and says that, starting on September 1, all US citizens are eligible to become "deputies" for the sole purpose of arresting illegal aliens. (You'd have pay a fee, pass a training course, and have a background check.) These deputies would receive $250 bounty for each alien delivered. I would suspect that before Sep 1, many of them would voluntarily relocate. Or, let's say that the first 2 million aliens who sign up and pay a $1000 fee can stay. With the $2B thus garnered, we build the wall!